On Family, Pt. 4

August 6th, 2018, 9:06 am

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Zero (Guest), August 6th, 2018, 10:25 am     Reply

so I take it Ben's an Apostate, be proud you wonderful runaway slave.

SkyOfTwilight, August 6th, 2018, 12:11 pm     Reply


ZSnazzy, August 6th, 2018, 2:27 pm     Reply

Aw that hurts

ColdFusion (Guest), August 7th, 2018, 9:50 pm     Reply

Poor Gabe, I know just how he feels. Some people are just beyond help, but you gotta try. Then you find out they're not even sorry.

NotImportant (Guest), August 8th, 2018, 12:46 pm     Reply

Not like I don't like them, but eh... pretty contradictionary with the "accept everyone" and the "burn everyone who doesn't follow our path" mentalities. Like, do what you preach. But above all, decide on things that don't cancel eachother out.

ComicGirl405, August 26th, 2018, 4:05 pm     Reply

@NotImportant: Same. I hate the hypocritical Christians, too.
"Jesus says to love and forgive your enemies," "Gays and Pagans are Satan's spawn, we must burn away their sins'

cwDeici (Guest), September 1st, 2018, 6:10 am     Reply


JWH are not Christians. They break the Nicene Creed. Also, most Christian sects do not practice brainwashing/cultism (i.e. monopolizing someone's emotional and intellectual space).

I made a further reply to ComicGirl405, as you're both making a strawman out of one non-Nicene actual -cult-, and not even considering them as a whole.
ComicGirl even says she hates.

cwDeici (Guest), September 1st, 2018, 6:22 am     Reply


Once again, these are not Christians, as they break the Nicene creed. And I notice you're already hating people, so you're doing a terrible job right here.

Regarding gays and pagans no burning is required, as the vast majority of Christians have always realized. There was heavy oppression in the middle ages, but the Catholic Inquisition and also (to a lesser extent) Protestant oppression very rarely went to the point of executions, not that it was good performance compared to modern ages, but in the middle ages most ideologies, whether more or less peaceful, were typically practiced in very violent ways. Medieval Latindom was certainly one of the least violent regions in the world, along with the rest of the fertile crescent (in tribal territories outside the fertile crescent and other organized societies the world was far more violent). I'd say only China (at times) and Jainist India were less violent.

All ideologies consider certain modes of behavior or even identity to be sinful, however negative behavior towards the external world is unbiblical, one can disapprove of something without being hateful/jerk about it.

Most Christians I know are well versed in Diakonia, the Biblical ideology of helping anyone for the sake of helping them, no threads attached, for a better world. :)

I suppose it depends on the Christian and Pagan in question, but how good are you when you're hating such a massive group of people and assuming they're all hypocrites without bothering with making any distinctions between those who don't even have those opinions, and those who have them but do not push them on others. Also, you should consider their good sides as well. JWH, as evil (and non-Christian) as they are were very active against the Nazis in WW2, even moreso than the Catholics.

All values eventually clash with realities on the ground, and have good and evil in them (for example very soft and wonderful ideologies are typically useless for controlling societies or winning wars, witness how small numbers of jihadists eventually came to completely dominate the Syrian Civil War, and how the liberals in the SCW have the weakest morale, even when their equipment is good). Though some values are far better than others, at least according to mainstream philosophy/religion/ideology/evolutionary psychology.
Personally, I find ideologies depend on the time and the people, some work well economically, others work well at certain times, or to uplift the poor, others don't work barely at all or are destructive and have almost nothing good in them. But it's never black and white. People are too complex for that.

In the case of Ben's brother here he is part of a legitimate (non-Nicene and thus non-Christian except in their own eyes, they even rewrite the Bible) cult that is well known for monopolizing intellectual/emotional/life space, so it is a very inferior and damaging ideology.

Still, as damaging as they are they are often productive members of society and they're good at standing up against authoritarianism (partly because they're authoritarian) and they tend to have strong loyalty and fellowship within their flocks from the few I knew (although this is much due to their cultism).

That's all, I suggest avoiding making and knocking over a straw man that you say represent 2+ billion people in one go over one non-Nicene cult, and not considering their ideology as a whole, even though it's a terrible cult.

(added from 2 comics later)
Identifying a non-Nicene cult as Christianity at large and saying you hate them all misses the fact that cults are borderline criminal in the way they manipulate people, completely misses the fact that JWH rewrote the Bible at will and believes non-Biblical things,

--- and more importantly misses the fact that many Christians don't have the social morality opinions that JWH does, or like myself, have some of those opinions (although it seems lighter and somewhat/very different in points) but don't push them all on my many *close* non-Christian friends! ---

Yes, it's perfectly possible for a conservative Christian to be close buddies with people like Ben and have strong personal stances you think everyone would benefit from, you just have to like, love people and understand that people have different values and not be pushy about it. :)

Another example would be politics, there's really no reason to not be friends with people who believe the exact opposite things unless the ideology of either Person A or B includes 'be a dick to people who don't agree and close your ears and don't socialize with them/never listen'. Christianity does have a large minority of Churches who behave in such a way (though less than a lot of (but not all) other religions and ideologies due to the foundational figure and the Greeco-Roman influences), but most don't.

Anyway we shouldn't hate JWH, they're a cult that needs to be dismantled, and its members deprogrammed.

It should not be legal to require non-socialization with general society as a requirement for joining an organization.
That is a value of mine, I respect that JWH churches generally do not conform to it, and I could still be friends with them if they're willing, but they might find it offensive that I believe they should be dismantled for cultism. I would not change my opinion, but that said, I would not push it in a conversation or spend any time on it.

Anyway, Ben is a great person. I just hope his GF didn't kill herself, he let her go rather roughly because she was a drain, but I think we can forgive that of course, even if it was kinda cruel... Well, she was maybe even terminal anyway it seemed, but hopefully she goes in a gentle way or gets better. :(

At least his brother talked to him... he can probably be deprogrammed. Although he is happy where he is, despite the pain regarding the family situation, so it doesn't seem likely.

ComicGirl405, September 1st, 2018, 10:42 am     Reply


cwDeici (Guest), September 6th, 2018, 1:21 am     Reply

Yeah, I kinda went nuts here and got a bit personal, hope no feelings were hurt, I'm sure you don't hate good people. :)


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